Line In The Sand
Posted on: Friday 10/19/2018 01:23:32
I was just watching a segment on GMA that was about how men react now to #metoo. The men interviewed said overall that they don't know where they stand now. Will they be lambasted for holding a door open for a woman now, for example? You could sense the frustration and tension.
The women interviewed talked very generally about the past and how they feel. However, they didn't say anything that would give a man any clue as to what is acceptable. They talked about certain things being perhaps not acceptable changing, but they gave no hint at specifics.
So, ladies. I know it doesn't affect me in some ways right now, but can you provide any insights as to where the line might be? Back a couple of months ago when I asked out a waitress at a restaurant and my brother said it was inappropriate. Was he correct? What about a man being a gentleman or extra courteous (opening a door, etc.)? Helping a woman whom has dropped bags of groceries? Starting casual small talk with a strange woman while in line at a store? Asking a strange woman out at a bar or Restaurant? Saying hello to a strange woman in passing, as men tend to do with each other?
I just wonder how far it extends from a woman's point of view. I am always respectful of ladies and admire their strength. I've always seen them to be superior to men (sorry guys). I always have that Midwestern politeness and courteousness in gear. However, I no longer am sure of where the line is.
kittenheel Says:
Obviously I haven't experienced the male point of view, but I've lived my life (to the best of my ability) with the attitude that you treat everyone, male, female, old, young, able-bodied, not, etc. the way you would want to be treated. Treat them as a person first, and then if gender becomes important, you haven't started out on the wrong foot. Then again, I may be hopelessly naive. /homepage
Simon Says:
Whatever you do, you’ll always piss someone off, whatever you do, but I think a rough guideline is pretty much what KH just said.
It’s been a good while since I’ve been out socially, but I’d hold a door open for someone if the alternative was to let it swing shut in their face (ie as opposed to being in a continuous stream of people going through), and I’d do so regardless of their sex. However I always avoided doing something like that only for women, solely because they were women. My upbringing, such as it was, was to avoid behaviour that might be interpreted as being condescending or pitying, and should be avoided. I would show unusual kindness or consideration for a very young child, or someone who was obviously infirm, but I would not do so simply because they were a woman.
lunamor Says:
I don't think it's really that hard - I think Mary hit the nail on the head. Look, if a woman is offended that you hold a door for her, or show her any sort of decent human courtesy: fuck her. No matter what you do, it's gonna piss off that kinda person. So just be a kind, generous person in general, and don't worry about the haters - they're gonna hate, no matter what you do.
As far as flirting, asking a woman out, etc.: you can tell a woman she looks nice without getting specific about how her ass looks in those jeans. Most people with basic social skills can pick up on if a woman wants to be approached, or is interested in what you have to say to her. Everyone has a right to choose who they are romantically interested in, and I think we as women are just sick of men thinking they are entitled to our affection just because they are nice to us.
lunamor Says:
And conversely, we are sick of men thinking we are definitely romantically interested in them, just because we are nice to them. This is what makes a lot of women act like bitches - one too many men thinking if she doesn't, she wants to date him. That's just not how it works, guys.
kittenheel Says:
I think it comes from two places in American culture. One, there are men who were raised to believe that women really are property and behave accordingly. Two, there are men who grew up lacking social skills, and if they buried themselves in superhero or fantasy fiction, they were exposed to a lot of fictional cases of the underdog "winning" where the "prize" was a girl. But reality isn't like either of those cases, and often the men who are genuine, and who don't think of women as either property or prizes end up paying for the actions of those who do. The "acting like a bitch" thing is unfortunate, but it is the only language some men understand. /homepage
Fritz The Bootlegger Says:
I think it’s about treating women with respect. You can hold a door. But you should hold a door for men too. You definitely need to read the room when asking a woman out. And if she says no, then that’s it. Trying to woo her can be harassment. And as for the waitress, would you ask your dental hygeniest out? That’s her place of business and she’s working. Trying to pick her up isn’t really helping her do her job.
If you are respectful to women as our equals you’ll be fine. Like I said as a human we should hold doors for anyone within reach. The difference is for men I’ll simply hold the door as they grab it. While for a woman, I’ll open it and step aside so they can walk in first. That way I can look at her ass.
(Kidding!)
knifeboy Says:
All good info there. I've always been respectful towards people in general. Even my dick boss. Couldn't stand him, respected the position. I wasn't raised to see women as prizes, but wasn't helped out with learning great social skills, either. I had to learn on my own, which I know was helped a lot by naturally having morals, ethics, and standards. However, as I have said before because I recognize it at times, and you all have no doubt seen, I can be real naive. I suppose that's part of why I posed the question. Maybe that's all part of why I am in the situation I'm in now with the ex. Steve, I didn't think about what you said with the waitress. I wish I had before I opened my mouth./homepage
lermontov Says:
Grab em by the pussy bro